Showing posts with label Oxford comma. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Oxford comma. Show all posts

Sunday, 1 December 2013

That dratted Comma!

If you've ever been confused by when to use a comma, then read Ginger Simpson's post on 29th Novemebr at this link: http://mizging.blogspot.co.uk/  If you are English* it may or may not help, since we use the wretched things differently to Americans and that just adds to the confusion. A friend who teaches English in America gave me these 5 comma rules that rule the world

1. Use a comma after an introductory phrase or clause
2. Use a comma before and after a parenthetical phrase or clause  (Lynne Truss calls this a weak interruption in a sentence. They can usually be lifted out whole without destroying the grammar)
3.Use a comma to separate two independent clauses linked by a coordinating conjunction  (and, but, for, nor, or, so, yet) (If you omit the conjunction and keep the comma, this becomes the splice comma. Personally I don't care for the splice comma)
4. Use a comma to separate items in a series (but do not use one before the and at the end of the list unless you want to be guilty of using the Oxford comma.)
5 Use a comma before a quotation when an introductory phrase with a word like say or reply precedes the quotation. (I don't think I ever knew this rule)
6. DO NOT PUT a comma between two verbs or verb phrases in a compound predicate. (Evidently I sometimes do this. My excuse is that I do it in the old-fashioned, time-honoured way we learned to do when we read aloud at school or wherever. It's simply a pause for breath, or for emphasis, perhaps to heighten tension as you make your audience wait for the next bit) 

There is also the comma used before direct speech though this seems to be dying out with some writers. Either way sits happily with me, as long as it is consistent throughout the piece or novel I'm reading.

I love some of the examples of sloppy or careless use of commas:
Leonora walked on her head, a little higher than usual.
The driver escaped from the car before it sank and swam to the river-bank

But of course, you know exactly where the commas should have gone, don't you?

* I've begun using English as my descriptor since the other partners in the United Kingdom began insisting on declaring themselves Scottish or Welsh or Northern Irish.


Saturday, 21 January 2012

Oxford commas

It was my local authors' lunch yesterday, hence my dereliction of duty regarding a new blog post. After a lovely lunch and much general chatter, we got down to talking about writing. The Oxford comma became a topic. Now I was interested in this because having done edits with more than one US indie publisher, I've noticed how much more frequent is their use of a comma.

I'm not denying commas are important. As Truss says in her book Eats, Shoots & Leaves, a humble comma can change the sense of a sentence. Take for example:
"Verily, I say unto thee, this day thou shalt be with me in Paradise" and compare it to "Verily I say unto thee this day, Thou shalt be with me in Paradise." See how the meaning changes?

The Oxford comma is the one that comes after white in the sentence "The boat is red, white, and blue." In the UK, the standard usage is to omit it. In America, standard usage is to put it in.

Since the comma is one of those markers in language that indicates where the reader
ice fowers
should slow down and pause in order to fully appreciate what is being said, then sometimes the extra comma is useful and sometimes it is not. My own feeling is that quite often one's reaction is no more than noticing something different, something unusual. Americans notice the comma is missing, in the UK we notice there's an extra comma where we wouldn't expect one. Does it destroy the reading enjoyment of the story? Not really. Not for more than half second, anyway.

What I do find confusing is when to use commas joining two complete sentences. When I'm edited in the US, they take out the ones I use, and put in ones I wouldn't, and I can't always see why. In the UK, commas are used with conjunctions such as and, or, but, while and yet. But we never do it with however and nevertheless.

Just to make life even more confusing, there's something called the splice comma.  When the conjunction is omitted and the comma is retained, when it should really be a semi-colon - that's a splice comma. Example: Pansy woke up in an unfamiliar bed, she felt odd. Famous writers like Updike, Beckett, E.M.Forster and Somerset Maugham use it, and get away with it. Used by them, it is considered dashing, poetic and effective, says Truss. Done by those who don't understand the rule, it is awful.

All I can add is that I get very confused when the grammar I learned at school and have used all my life is deemed to be incorrect. I sit here and muse how very different the novels of Nora Roberts would be if her books were put into UK English before they were loosed on the British public. Watch caps and Oreoes? What the hell are they?

Monday, 11 July 2011

Is nothing sacred?

The lavender is in full scented bloom here, and walking in the meadows around the mill frequently brings up a smell of mint. Walnuts are fully formed on the trees, and this morning a red squirrel raced down the walnut tree near the bolly, bounced across a patch of tall grass and disappeared onto the lower patio only three yards from me. (A bolly, in case you are wondering, is the local word for a covered patio at the side of the house.)

The sun is blazing down from a blue sky, but tomorrow rain is forecast. We can't complain; evidently the Dordogne region has been suffering from a severe water shortage.


Back home, the row goes on about journalists hacking peoples' phones, a crime the profession seem to consider unimportant when in pursuit of a story. The News of the World, a salacious rag I remember from the days of my childhood, has bitten the dust as a result, and hopefully all Murdoch's papers will have to change their ways if they wish to survive. If a person cannot be sure of having a private phone call, what use are phones?


I read in the Daily Telegraph over the weekend that the Oxford or serial comma 'is entering that zombie half-life where all dying grammatical rules survive for a while - appreciated only by the prissy and the fussy. It's better to kill off the poor, awkward thing, rather than let it linger on, unhappily, between the covers of books published by Oxford University Press.' (In case you are curious, the Oxford or serial comma is the one inserted just before the "and" or "or" in the last item of a list of three or more items, as in the sentence 'I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears, and sweat.' Without the Oxford comma, Churchill would have offered the British people just 'blood, toil, tears and sweat.')


Harry Mount, the Telegraph journalist, goes on to say that the Oxford comma is fiddly, correct but followed only by a clever minority and smacks of smug pedantry. he quotes H W Fowler, who said in 1926: "Pride of knowledge is a very unamiable characteristic, and the display of it should be sedously avoided."


So there we are. Note to self: check and see how many newspapers Rupert Murdoch actually owns. He might actually own the Daily Telegraph for all I know.

Tuesday, 17 February 2009

Forgot something and Oxford commas

I despair, Ireally do, when I see twenty foot banners inside Tesco with the legend 'Forgot Something' leering over the check out counters. They've also got Jackie Collins and Dean Koontz in the books section under a heading Childrens Fun for the second week running.

Then there's the weather person after the lunch time NE BBC NEWS who tells me "it could be a bit more drizzlier."

I'm tired of the grammatical errors that creep into everything. Does no one under the age of fifty understand the rules of grammar? I console myself with the thought that at least they got the new signs for Hadrian's Wall Country correct. I know it is easy to make mistakes and the paragon who never makes a mistake does not live - but if I was going to pay good money for a banner the size of a double decker bus and plaster it up in public, I'd make very sure I got it right. And perhaps the worst thing of all is that younger people don't see it, don't feel their hackles go up, don't know what the problem is. And who works in advertising agencies? Grrr.

I read of something called an Oxford comma the other day. Do you know what this strange creature is? No, I didn't either, in spite of having a degree in English Language, so I thought I'd better find out. So here goes - in the sentence The flag is red, white, and blue the Oxford comma is the one after the word white.

In Britain, standard usage is to leave it out. In America, standard usage is to leave it in.
Arguments can be made both ways. Some sentences seem to need it, and others do not. So then it becomes a matter of personal style and choice.
My critique group has a lot of fun with commas. Some take them out, some put them in, and some take no notice. Both the sentences below are correct:
It was a dark, stormy night.
It was an endangered white rhino.
The rule is that you use a comma where and would fit, as in a list. ie The night was dark and stormy.
But the second sentence is not a list. In other words, the rhino was not endangered and white.
(Thanks to Lynne Truss (Eats, Shoots & Leaves) for the example)